Continuation of our interview with Dr. Jack Taylor (see Part 2 here).
JDH - I want to switch gears now and have you talk about the Piobaireachd Society: What are it’s plans? Give us an assessment of where you are at, and the bright future you described in that first lecture.
JT - The Piobaireachd Society, as you know, came under a great deal of criticism. And some of it was just, and some of it not just. But the whole point was, it was seen as a very closed shop.
It was never meant to be that, you know. You look at Archibald Campbell: he never meant it to be like that at all. He always said, “Play whatever setting you want.” And that’s been stated year after year after year after year - since 1915 or 1918.
But it came to be ossified.
I’d like to see it as promoting pibroch, you know, in all its guises. So, to loosen up in whatever way we can. And that’s why I so much welcome what you are doing.
And I welcome it particularly because it’s not coming from the Piobaireachd Society. Because people would say, “Well, what is the Piobaireachd Society trying to do now?”
So, it’s really just to let the thing become free. And it can be. That would be my ultimate aim.
And, of course, I’d love to see pibroch become accepted and liked apart from its competition context.
JDH - Do you have projects in the works? There’s a Book 16, I’ve been told…
JT - Well, the projects have included the publication of Roderick Cannon’s work of the last 15 years: his Donald MacDonald volumes 1 and 2, as well as Angus MacArthur (which was not his). That’s been major publication stuff. And the point of that, really, was try to make that stuff better known. It hasn’t done that. Well, maybe it has in a way.
JDH - I think it has. But people are afraid to use it.
JT - Well, maybe that’s right. And then what we’re doing now, at long last, is another book (Book 16), which is really a series of Victorian tunes, almost, or tunes that are quite well known but for which there are other versions - such as “Glengarry’s Lament”, Thomason’s “Hail to My Country”, “Cave of Gold” and some other stuff. It’s been completed thanks to some good work of Alan Forbes, Andrew Wright and Ronnie Clark - fantastic.
So that’s really where we are. There are not other particular publications in the pipeline at the moment.
Republishing our stuff? That debate has gone on a lot, about whether you actually re-do it, you know, and take out what are obvious errors. But we’ve pretty well taken the decision until now not to substantially change these, in the same way that Angus MacKay has not be substantially changed, or Donald MacDonald.
Plus promoting the research element. The Conference is great for that.
I’d love to promote performance in other contexts.
JDH - I was going to ask: Just how broad is the scope of the Piobaireachd Society? We all know about the publications…
JT - It’s really more about promoting what’s been going on: the competitions (we put money into the competitions) and promoting other bits of performances (we put some money into what Murray Henderson did, called The Big Music).
Education: in a way, we’re very, very keen to say we are not teachers. We simply lay in front of people what there is known about the music. Because there are many, many teachers and establishments and so on. So we wouldn’t see ourselves as teachers in that sense. We are researchers, more.
JDH - With respect to education: I grew up as a classical violinist. And one of the things that becomes part of the pedagogy of the violin is to introduce the student to concertos. Now, there is a wide range of concertos available, and many are written for the beginning student. And the point is to begin instilling in the student the structure and musicality of the great tradition of solo performance.
There really isn’t anything like that for pibroch. Jim McGillvray’s site is starting to make available some lessons in pibroch, and he distinguishes “easy” from “intermediate” (for example). Maybe Bruce Gandy does something similar, I’m not sure (I have taken a close look at the site).
But the point is, in classical music, there is an understanding of the need to develop a critical sense of musicality and introduce the student at a very early stage to a process of gradual maturity.
What should pibroch pedagogy look like? You have students. How have you brought them into incremental musicality?
JT - Well, again, I try not to be too prescriptive. I try and let them find the music. Teaching somebody Glengarry’s Lament, I’ll say, “Here let’s have go,” and I’ll sing it. Then you say, “Okay, how about playing it? See if you can follow me singing it.” I think it all kind of happens through some sort of osmosis. They learn musicality without realizing they are learning it. So, hopefully they come out not playing mechanically.
Some of them do and some of them don’t. Of course, you immediately spot the ones that can pick up the musicality very easily. It’s the ones that just don’t see it: I have very talented people who have come to me for pibroch on a weekly basis for years, and still - they can play it as prescribed, but they can’t “play” it.
JDH - Some people say that you need 20 or 30 pibroch under your belt to become good. I don’t know if that’s right, but I know what’s being said - it’s that marination process, the opportunity for more osmosis. The more exposure you have, the better the chance at getting it.
But, I bet you, the teachers of old had a pedagogy. I suspect it was very similar to traditional forms of instruction in a dyadic teacher-pupil dynamic - go learn this, come back when you think you are ready. Something like that.
But I wonder what we have today? Why do you start with Glengarry’s Lament, for example?
JT - Well, because it’s easy to memorize, it’s quite short - things like that. And it gives an idea of what the structure of many tunes is. And it’s melodious and quite easy to learn.
And of course, you know Peter MacLeod stole that tune…
JDH - ??
JT - The Conundrum.
JDH - How funny! Hadn’t thought about it!
Anyway, I’ve been pondering the question of pedagogy, because I really think I may have gone about it the “wrong” way. I started with Hannay-MacAuslan…
JT - If you show new students Hannay-MacAuslan…!
JDH - I know. They’d run away.
Speaking of which, I think you should sponsor the publication of that manuscript. I know most of the tunes appear in Donald MacDonald, but there there’s something quite remarkable about it, its age, its movements.
JT - There’s a lot of good stuff in there, as you’ve pointed out.
JDH - Jack Lee teases me that I’m the only one who knows it exists. I want to change that.
In any case, I started there, and I’m not sure that was the right way to do it. Although, it has a breadth of tunes to it, from small tunes (Sword’s Lament) to non-standard (Sister’s Lament), to massive tunes, some up to 17 motions long (Young George), and some with taorluath a mach movements! I’m just not sure if it was the best way to start.
JT - I think it takes a lot of different strands, you know. The Donald MacDonald Quaich was brought in because of the fact that no one was doing anything with the Donald MacDonald material - buying it, playing it. And Glenfiddich, good ol’ Glenfiddich put money in it for years (27 years) just to make it happen. It’s become a good annual event and there’s been great music played there, I can tell you. I’ve judged it a few times.
But sadly, until now, it’s not been recorded much. It’s not been out there. And it’s that stuff being out there that’s more likely to make people… you know…it’s the sound that people will adhere to.
JDH - I remember reading a comment by someone who had seen last year’s event and they were wondering what all those “new” movements were. Of course, they were not new, they were very old. But the exposure to them opens up opportunity.
That got me thinking, after a discussion with Alan Forbes, whether there wouldn’t be an opportunity to create an event where strictly primary source materials and styles were played, and not just on pipes: harps and fiddles could be included as well. I’m not sure how to entice people to join: a competition? a recital? It should be prestigious enough to entice excellent musicians to dedicate some time to these settings, and different enough to entice a much broader audience than is usual at pibroch events.
I was thinking this was something that could be done at Piping Live, maybe, one year. Even better: annually.
JT - I was kind of a bit hopeful that maybe we’d do something this year about that. But, because we have Book 16 coming, we decided to hold off.
But it’s a good idea. I don’t like the idea of having it as a competition. Because, well: I play a fiddle in an orchestra. And they have an orchestra competition as part of a local festival, you see? So I went to practice one night and she said, “Right, we’re going to play the competition set.” And we died! We froze up! Since the word “competition” was mentioned.
I thought that’s a nice illustration of what the competitive element does, or can do to music, and has done to pibroch.
I’d say a pibroch concert. Good stuff.
The other thing I’ve thought about (I haven’t dared mention this to anyone), would be called “Pibroch in the Pub”.
JDH - I was thinking something along similar lines. It should not be a “sacred” event, where everybody sits as still as Quakers in a meeting house. It should be lively, casual without being disrespectful.
JT - That sort of thing appeals to me. Again, I’ve had an experience recently of something similar, which was a local fiddler, a very good fiddler, said to me, “Jack, we’ve got a group of fiddlers coming from Ireland. Just a wee tour of this area, you see? And would you mind coming down to the pub here and telling them a bit about pibroch? Nobody knows about it, and they need to know”. And I said, “Yeah.” And they just loved it. I just did little bits. And they loved the singing of it. I just covered two or three tunes. And they just loved it.
I’m kind of, like, with you: something that’s a little less formal.
JDH - “Piping Live! Pibroch in the Pub” - that would be a lot of fun.
JT - It could be. And for the piper, it’s got to be, “Your job is to connect.”
JDH - Right. Don’t stand there and tune for 10 minutes. Play!
JT - Connect! It wouldn’t matter if it’s just wee bits. “Here’s a lovely piece of melody…”
What I think will sell it is people hearing the music played well. There is this theory that it is as it is because it’s the best. The “theory of distillation” I like to call it. You need somebody to convince people to challenge that view. Great players getting in there and doing it.
JDH - Thank you for your time! It’s been a pleasure. And I have to say, everybody agrees that your work at the Piobaireachd Society has fundamentally opened things up, and a lot of us are very excited about it.
JT - Well, thank you. And keep up the good work yourself!
